Christian Storck about applying law in the fintech scene and how to innovate the future.

FTGA podcast Nº15 Christian Storck

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[Speaker 2]

Hi everyone and welcome to the Fintech Germany Award Jewelry Podcast enabled by Financial Times. I am Alexandra, your host today and we will provide you with insights on the award, our jewelry members and latest trends in the industry. I'm recording remotely today with Christian Stork from Linklaters.

Christian, welcome. Thanks for the invitation.

[Speaker 1]

I'm really happy to be here and looking forward to our chat.

[Speaker 2]

Christian, you are global head of capital markets and innovation at Linklaters and our listeners surely want to know a little more about your background and of course about Linklaters. So please go ahead and tell us something about who you are and why you have chosen to be a lawyer maybe in the first place.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, so first of all, I'm a lawyer, so excuse me for that. And yeah, so I'm heading the global capital market practice in Linklaters. It's around 100 partners globally from New York to Japan and on capital markets, we're doing everything from equity to structured finance, derivatives and derivatives is my home turf.

So I'm a derivatives lawyer doing all kinds of asset classes from equity interest, FX commodities, securitized, unsecuritized. So that's my background in my day life. And then at night, it's innovation.

So that's another batch I'm really proud of to put forward our kind of digitalization of our services. So legal tech, how can you actually service the clients in a digital way, innovative, also then the kind of the management internally process optimization. So all of that, and with that is also the digitalization as part and that's why I'm also in the Fintech Germany jury.

And that's one of the areas of digitalization in cap markets and everything around that. I'm also looking from a practice perspective and advising clients in that respect. And Alexandra, going back to your question, why a lawyer?

It was pretty easy. I wanted to study in Heidelberg and that was the first choice I made. And then I looked at the kind of the what is on offer, what kind of studies, what's on the menu.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, then I would say it's either law or medicine, right?

[Speaker 1]

I can't see blood, so medicine is gone. It was basically law or I could have done economics, but that's too many numbers. So it was law.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, but why then Heidelberg? I know the city is very beautiful, of course. Yes, that's true.

But do you have a background in that city? So family or?

[Speaker 1]

Even more boring. I'm born there.

[Speaker 2]

So you're an original Heidelberger.

[Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Speaker 2]

Okay.

[Speaker 1]

So hence I wanted to study in my hometown. It's a stupid idea. In hindsight, going somewhere abroad would be so good.

At that time I wanted to stay there and that's why I've chosen Heidelberg.

[Speaker 2]

Absolutely understandable, because I studied in Mannheim and every now and then we made trips there and yeah, it was just beautiful. I mean, a lot of people that want to study in Heidelberg, they cannot afford living there because it's really, really expensive. So lucky you, I guess you could just stay with your parents and focus on your studies full time.

But if you are really an insider, then I need to ask that question. What are your insider tips for Heidelberg?

[Speaker 1]

Well, that's the point is, it's very long time ago, I studied there. But what we used to do, and that's I think, very hopefully still exists that kind of tradition on the students is doing the Großer Neckarschein, which is basically a kind of, if you translate that, it's the big license of Heidelberg. And what it does is, you take the Neckarstraße, one of the streets, and you have to drink one beer in each and every pub.

And if you're able to do that, you get a big batch. That's the Großer Neckarschein.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, that's super interesting. I really didn't know that. But maybe some of our listeners are now trying to do that.

So thank you so much for these insights. But when you studied law, did you know at the time you did your studies already, where you would want to work? I mean, as a lawyer, you can do lots of things.

It's like, I mean, I had also the choice between studying law and economics, and I choose economics because it's just faster. So it's both even broad. So did you know that you would end up where you are right now in these fields or at that firm?

[Speaker 1]

No idea.

[Speaker 2]

So please tell us about that story.

[Speaker 1]

I haven't done any due diligence. It was really kind of, okay, you start law. And the good thing that's what I know about myself, is if you give me kind of something to do or kind of a duty, I'm doing it.

And I'm coping with that and get interested in the topic. So hence, I studied law, started with that, found it interesting intellectually, because in the end, you solve problems. It's a bit like mathematics, because you solve it.

If it is that, it's logic, and then you put a lot of words to it. So I like that as well. So it's a lot of playing with language.

And that's how it started. But there was no end game or kind of a plan. Oh, I wanted to become a lawyer in XY in that firm, or not even the thinking of making a lot of money.

That was not the idea.

[Speaker 2]

So what inspired you then? Or who did you meet in your career that was some kind of maybe a mentor or paved the way for where you are now? Because I know that sometimes in your career, you have these people around you that maybe believe in something in you that you don't see at that moment.

So did you have such a mentor moment?

[Speaker 1]

Yes. And it was at school. It was my Latin teacher, funnily enough.

And he was kind of, in the end, we became very good friends, although different age groups. But he was kind of a person, very intellectual. And he inspired me in that.

And he was kind of a person also then with language. He was running the theater group at the school. I was part of that as well.

So he inspired kind of being creative, playing with language, and being kind of self-controlled, speaking in public and so on. So all of that, that's something and believe in yourself. I think that was from him.

He inspired that.

[Speaker 2]

And who inspired you for Linklaters?

[Speaker 1]

It's again, as always, it's just coincidences. It's really during my training. So today we had one group and one of my friends, she said, Oh, I'm working there in a law firm.

It's great, great people, blah, blah, blah. And I said, Oh, who is that? And she's working for Linklaters.

Never heard of that firm. I was not kind of in the magic circle of the big law firm. So not at that time, not looking at that very seriously.

And I said, Okay, let's do my traineeship there as well. Sounded like a nice club. And that's what I then applied for.

It was the only application I did in the traineeship to go there and do my one step stage there.

[Speaker 2]

And you're still there.

[Speaker 1]

Yes, that's absolutely right.

[Speaker 2]

So on your LinkedIn, it says, and you, I mean, I have you now on the camera as well, but to give our listeners an impression, you don't look like you have been in one firm for over 21 years. So congratulations. It seems like it's still a lot of fun.

So please tell us a little more about what Linklaters does right to attract people like you for such a long time.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, it's a long time. And it's funny in the background, there's a 20. I don't know whether you can...

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, I can see it.

[Speaker 1]

You can see it. And the 20, I got that last year from my colleagues here. And there are in the 20s, built of pictures over the 20 years with different colleagues.

And we had a party with everyone I worked with. And it was kind of almost 50 people. They have moved on and some are still in the firm.

So but around 50 people worked very closely. So that's kind of, that's perhaps one area creating that feeling of that you're one team, you belong together. We're very different people.

So that's another kind of, it's very unique, absolutely different people that different interests. Yeah, and kind of just, you see that there are different personalities. And looking back in these now 21 years, is really what made me stick here is it was based five jobs I did here in the end.

So you change jobs more or less with the same firm.

[Speaker 2]

So it's about personal development.

[Speaker 1]

Exactly. So you're junior, and then you are in kind of a managing associate role. So then you had a kind of that, you're then responsible for the team.

I spent two years in London in our London office. From that, I did one year stage at Credit Suisse at the time in London. And then you come back, you integrate in the Frankfurt office again, and then you become a partner.

It's completely new job as a partner. And then I got the innovation role. Absolutely fascinating.

And now I'm global head of the cap markets group. It's another completely new job. So that shows that if the firm is looking at people and providing these opportunities, then you don't need to move around in other shops.

[Speaker 2]

That's absolutely reasonable. So how many colleagues do you have in Germany or globally? Maybe this is also interesting for our listeners to hear.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, so it's a huge, it's one of the big law firms, as it's a big law. In Frankfurt, we are around 300 people. So that includes also the business teams supporting us as lawyers.

Globally, we are around 3000 people altogether. As I said, around 400 partners worldwide. So it's a big company.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, that's super interesting. And if anyone wants to join you as well, we put maybe a link in the show notes. If we go maybe on to the awards, you are now on the jury first time.

So I can maybe ask you some questions. The others were not asked so far. So what do you think the jury work is going to look like?

[Speaker 1]

The good thing is, Alexandra, I got yesterday my jury briefing. So Michael, we had a chat one hour to go through what I'm actually supposed to do. And it looks like, oh, there is a lot of work to be done.

Because I saw the Excel sheet. Currently we're at 102 names.

[Speaker 2]

Yes, that's true.

[Speaker 1]

And then you look at the names, and then you know, probably I know, or I know is too much, but you have kind of, okay, heard of them, some I know really, but it's only 20, 25, you have kind of an idea. All the rest, never heard, no idea. And then you get this fact sheet, a two page PDF.

But then it's probably doing some research also on websites and checking that. So it's really a desktop analysis. And probably I will need the next weekend, some good red wine.

Hopefully there will be some outside and then going through that.

[Speaker 2]

If not, you take a glühwein. If it's raining, then... No, but I could imagine you from what you have just said about your job and how you work and what's your approach.

And I guess you are a very analytical person as well. And you said that law is like mathematics. So from what I think, how you are going to be in the jury, it's, yeah, I mean, it's like new cases, you just need to dig into a new case, get to know all the variables, look at what is happening there.

And I think with that approach, you will be a very good contribution and add on to our jury. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

And Alexander, do you have a tip for me? Because I'm new on the job.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Speaker 1]

And any one tip would be good to get from you as an experienced wine.

[Speaker 2]

The wine is a good approach. And maybe, I don't know, are you doing any sports like long distance stuff or whatever? I have not asked about that, but...

[Speaker 1]

Yeah. So I'm doing triathlon. So very long.

[Speaker 2]

Perfect. Okay. Then you know how everything works, because if you try to align that with the jury work, you could either do it all at once.

And as a lawyer, I guess you are used to all-nighters. So this is one approach that you could do. But you could also try like in the training to slice it down into several pieces so that you say, okay, in the next weeks, I do two on a day or five a day or on a weekend.

Yeah, this would be the two approaches. But if you are doing triathlons, then you know how it works.

[Speaker 1]

And probably if it is a competition, full on.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. So I also had some sleepless nights in the past with these, because I always want to look at every FinTech. But maybe on the approach, you will also see that some are very likely to fill out all the questions and they are very much into it.

And some, you also experience, they just applied, but they don't take that much effort in it. And just my personal approach, I do not really rate these ones well, that just do not hand in anything because I think, okay, it takes a little effort as well to win an award. And besides the business model and the funding and the team, you also should maybe take some minutes to really do the application well.

So whenever there's something that is not filled out as well, I take off some points for that.

[Speaker 1]

Okay. Interesting. Yeah.

So I'll find my approach and I'm really looking forward then to the get together with the jury and then battling it out after we've all scored the...

[Speaker 2]

The discussions is quite intense and the discussions is super important because before the discussions, it's just numbers and tables and you have a rating. But then you get into the discussions with all the jurors about who is going to solve a more important problem for society, who has the more potential to have a business model, etc. And the discussion part is super, super important.

And yeah, I like that very much. And you should definitely not miss that part. And last year, it was at your offices.

We had the jury session at Linklaters.

[Speaker 1]

It was good because I met the jury then afterwards because my former colleague, Florian Reuel, he was the jury member and he did a great job on that. And then I met you guys for drinks on our terrace.

[Speaker 2]

So yeah, that was also very nice. And we were also able to record like, I guess, four episodes of the podcast in your office. So you made a space available for us to make it a remote studio.

So yeah, thanks again, Linklaters for enabling us in that respect. Going back to the awards. So what motivates you, even though it's a lot of work to take part in the awards?

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, so I find it very interesting to see the business cases. So the ideas which these founders have pursued, and they're doing that. First, when you found a company, it's really about the passion and pursue that.

So that's the first side. That's great to see. And then it's exactly as you described it already, is that trying to solve a problem and how they do it.

And what is the mission? That's interesting to see. And in particular, when it's very early, in the early stages, but also then if they are more advanced already in the market, then it's more like the business as usual and more like the clients we as Linklaters have.

And that's also interesting from a business perspective to get in contact with them, talk about the market and potentially some we even have as clients or want them as clients. So that's then also business opportunities for us. But on all levels, it's very, very interesting to see that ecosystem.

[Speaker 2]

Absolutely right. So that's absolutely true for me. It's the same.

So I love to dive into new topics to get a broader view, to expand my network and sometimes to get a little bit outside of my bubble. I mean, yes, fintech, it's still a bubble itself. But from my job experience, I'm more into fintechs with wealth management or crypto.

So yeah, it's super cool to also see what other fintechs are doing that you would not have maybe met in your regular business. So another question for you, Christian, who would you not have met if it wasn't for the awards?

[Speaker 1]

That's a good...

[Speaker 2]

Okay, maybe we would not have met.

[Speaker 1]

That was my first thing. So it's probably you.

[Speaker 2]

Yes, maybe me. Maybe some of the fintechs you would have met. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

Or maybe the other jury members. Sorry, Michael Mellinghoff. Although I met him before, not being a member, but that was so probably not right.

But it's probably the other jury members as well. But yeah.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, great. And from your point of view, which trends do you see as absolutely relevant and which trends should the startups try to solve?

[Speaker 1]

I think and we see... So I looked at the list already. So I don't want to say...

But it's really the ESG trend is one which we see in the established market. So banks solving that, investment banks, asset managers, and so on. And also the corporate.

So this entire ESG, I wouldn't say it's a trend. It's really something we need to solve. So we need to solve that problem with the planet.

And it's not only green. It's also then the social element. And it's probably then more and more the case.

So for example, in the established world, we see more sustainable linked bonds now coming from normal corporates. So for the fintechs, that's an area where their kind of power of innovation is absolutely needed in order to solve that problem. And for the fintechs, it's basically organizing in a very efficient way, the financing for ESG projects and the projects who are solving the problem problems of the planet in that area.

[Speaker 2]

Okay. And anything from your point of view, maybe at link later. So any topics you want to solve in your company or what trends do you see maybe with AI rising at the moment?

[Speaker 1]

So yeah, so AI is everywhere, surely. And it's also in our business. So we as a firm, and particularly then in our innovation journey, we're pushing that massively.

We see that as a huge opportunity. And you could say it's a risk, but I'm not on that side, but a huge opportunity to enhance the legal work. So you get better results, you can verify the output, you can get a very good first cut of certain advice, the knowledge is more accessible, the huge data you can run through being our own metadata, but also then the legal knowledge, case law and so on.

So this is absolutely, I think it's mandatory for every lawyer to be kind of AI, a theme to like that and work with that and use that as a tool, like we use Word. So it's exactly the same.

[Speaker 2]

I must say, and some people might know maybe, but I must absolutely admit one of my absolute favorite series was Boston Legal. You're smiling as well, so you have seen it as well. It's like 20 years when it came out, and there were still associates that were just hired in that big law firm to read through stuff and to do research.

So I guess that every associate nowadays that starts in a law firm really does not have to do these kinds of things, right? Would you agree on that?

[Speaker 1]

Absolutely. Currently, we're doing a due diligence with thousands of real estate, basically parts, so looking at real estate, and that is not before 20 years ago, human beings. So there were kind of associates thrown at that problem and find out the the various legal title from the Grundbuch is actually there and so on.

But now it's AI is running through the data and you get an Excel sheet within five minutes. So that's absolutely, absolutely right. And we as a firm did four or five years ago, we did a coding for lawyer program, which still exists.

So it's now in our knowledge and learning program in there. So in order to enable lawyers to code, and that was a good, good pickup by the lawyers to get kind of in the thinking of IT and the coders.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, that's also an interesting info. So everyone who always wondered how coding and being a lawyer gets together, should also apply at Linklaters maybe.

[Speaker 1]

So absolutely, Alexandra.

[Speaker 2]

Thank you for these insights. That's maybe I should also think about that. No, just kidding.

Okay, Christian. But just because you're absolutely into AI, it does not mean that the AI is going to do the jury work for you right now. So it's something you definitely need to do with your own brain.

[Speaker 1]

I think that's, that's absolutely right. And it would be a shame to put every fact sheet into the machine. And then out comes the scoring.

I think that would be very boring, because then it was not it wouldn't be my mind. And you don't see then the passion from these stars. And you're not kind of, it's not in your brain.

It's on paper, not in your brain. And that makes a huge difference.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, so if I don't see you tired, then I know that you have cheated with AI. No, just kidding. But maybe one last thought that came to my mind.

I mean, there are a lot of companies like you, and I'm working at a crypto bank. So there are a lot of companies right now that use AI and try to solve problems. But when I think, let's say, just about Germany and the local authorities, is it working well to get data from them?

I mean, in some aspects, we are all absolutely dependent on the data of the government. Let's say, for example, the Handelsregister, the Grundbuchauszug, as you just mentioned. How do you see that?

Because they are not very well known for being digitized.

[Speaker 1]

You're absolutely right. So we need to distinguish the public or the data from the public authorities than the personal data. Yeah, no way we can get that.

[Speaker 2]

But the Handelsregister, I mean, it's official. It's available for everyone. But still, can you access this with AI or not?

[Speaker 1]

No, you need to pull it out and then put it into the machine. And the same with the Grundbuch. Or even then the frictions you have when you have the kind of the Grundbuch against the Baulasten is a different kind of register, basically.

But it's, as I say, you need to pull it out and then run the AI over it. So there are frictions, definitely better than in the 80s, where you had to go to the authorities and print it out. And that's Stone Age.

But of course, it's not as smooth as you think that you just put your machine over that and everything is in the cloud and you just run over it. That's not the case. But I think we're getting there at some point.

Okay, that's good to hear. But ask me in 10 years.

[Speaker 2]

Okay, I will ask you maybe next year again on the jury. So yeah, let's see. Let's see and keeping fingers crossed that it's going to be a little faster.

Because I mean, you see that in a lot of other countries, these things are going very, very fast. And being behind in Germany, that is also a yeah, a disadvantage as an industrial standard.

[Speaker 1]

And as an economic powerhouse in Europe, it's not good to be at the back foot of innovation. I completely agree.

[Speaker 2]

And this is why we need the fintech Germany award and other awards and accelerator programs and the other partners that we have on board. So it's good that at least the companies as well, like Linklaters drive the change forward. And I'm so sorry, but we are at the end today of this episode.

Do you want to give us some final last words for today?

[Speaker 1]

Thanks, Alexander, for your time and also then to the listeners. Many thanks for the time and looking forward to the next episode if I'm invited again. And then I'm going now back to the Excel sheet and the fact sheets and doing the jury work.

[Speaker 2]

Please do so and let us know if you need any further help. We will be there.

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